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Leading People
Brian Moran Explains Why Accountability Isn't What You Think
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Join us this week as Brian Moran, acclaimed author and innovator behind the "12-Week Year," challenges us to rethink our traditional views on accountability.
In this eye-opening episode, Brian dives into why seeing accountability as a mere consequence is a misconception that limits potential. Discover the transformative power of true accountability through ownership, choice, and clear commitments.
Whether you're leading a team, managing your own business, or looking to elevate your personal productivity, Brian’s insights will equip you with the tools to achieve more in less time.
Ready to change how you see accountability and success?
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Wide Circle
Welcome to episode 53 of Leading People with me, Gerry Murray. This episode is brought to you by Wide Circle, helping you make better talent decisions. To learn more, visit widecircleeu. That's W-I-D-E-C-I-R-C-L-E dot E-U. C-i-r-c-l-e dot E-U. In today's episode, we dive deep with Brian Moran, a return guest, a celebrated bestselling author and a pioneer of the 12-week year concept. How can redefining accountability influence our personal and professional growth? What does it really mean to hold someone accountable, and is it always about imposing consequences? And how can embracing a philosophy of ownership radically change the way we approach our goals and leadership? Stay tuned as Brian unpacks these questions and many more, sharing insights from his own personal journey that are bound to transform your approach to leadership and productivity. You won't want to miss this, so let's hear what Brian has to say. Brian Moran, welcome back to Leading People. Hey, thanks for having me back.
Speaker 2:It's great to be with you, yeah again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean you're one of the few guests I've had back, but there's a good reason for having you back today. I came across your latest book a few months before Christmas, read it in a day or two, whatever it took devoured it. Thought it was really excellent, building on all the great work you've done in the past, and it's actually two years since I had you on the show, so it's quite nice to have you back here. But you know some people are coming to this Leading People program new. They may not have heard your previous episode, so maybe, well, let's start with who is Brian Moran and tell us a little bit about how you got to be an acclaimed author and you've got this great 12-week methodology. So maybe we'll just start with that.
Speaker 2:Thanks, yeah, if you read my bio, I'm a New York Times bestselling author, consultant, coach, entrepreneur. My background I started out in the corporate space and did really well, but it always had this inkling to be an entrepreneur Went out on my own and you know, but it always had this inkling to be an entrepreneur, Went out on my own and struggled. At first I was used to having a lot of resources, a lot of people around me, but if you commit to it and you stay with it, it works out. And it's worked out pretty fantastic for me, I must say so. The first book was the 12-week year. It's in 15 languages, sold nearly a million copies, and our latest book that we're here to talk about is called. First book was the 12-week year.
Speaker 1:It's in 15 languages, sold nearly a million copies, and our our latest book that we're here to talk about is called uncommon accountability yeah and uh, and, and just to remind our listeners, because several of the listeners some of the regulars anyway have told me they bought the book and they're using the methodology. There's also a workbook isn't there for the 12 week year, which you, which has lots of tools in it, and you've got a great website as well, so I think people should check that out. Yeah, that'd be great some stage. Not yet listen to the podcast, so uncommon accountability, uh, so, um, what do you mean by uncommon accountability and what was the purpose in writing this book?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know we wrote a couple chapters in 12 Week here on accountability, and I say we my business partner, michael Lennington, co-authored the books with me but we have a very different view of accountability, and that's what makes it uncommon is that I think most people think about accountability and certainly experience accountability as negative consequences. Most of the places you hear accountability spoken about is in a situation where someone's done something wrong and someone in authority is going to punish them, and that is not accountability. I mean, that's consequences. But you watch the news tonight, doesn't matter where you're at in the world, and someone will have done something they shouldn't have and someone's going to say, hey, we're going to hold this person accountable, and what they're talking about is they're going to punish them, they're going to prosecute them, they're going to fine them, they're going to put them in something like that, and that's's fine, right, but that's not. That's not accountability, that's consequences.
Speaker 1:And so we're kind of on a quest to help people really understand what accountability is and and the true power of it yeah, I mean, as you say, you listen to the news and one of the first questions they want to have answered is who is to blame?
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly, and so that's how. That's how people experience accountability, because they they use those words interchangeably right, we're going to hold them accountable, which means we're going to punish them after, after we figure out who to fix the blame on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And and often it's hard to actually find one person who has who you could blame anyway, because often these things come out of a process and there may be several actors involved. We don't know who created which problem for whom as they go along. So that's often what happens and, of course, if you, if you, if you think of accountability as consequences, at best you're going to get compliance. Isn't that right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so you know it shows up two levels right. As an individual, I really don't want anything to do with that. If that's the concept of accountability, you know, unconsciously and consciously I don't, you know I'm not leaning into that I don't want anything to do with that. As an organization then and many organizations do they look to blame people and hold them accountable in a way that is very unproductive and destroys the culture quite candidly.
Speaker 1:You know it's interesting, jerry, you've got companies that spend millions on building trust in an organization and then they undermine it all the way they, the way they think about accountability and the way they act with people around that yeah, um, and you mentioned in in in the book uh, you, you mentioned that you vetted this approach with um thousands of individuals and organize and organizations, and one of the things that you say early on is that you state that personal accountability is the bedrock upon which all sustained success in life is based. So perhaps you could elaborate on, you know, that whole aspect of personal accountability, because I think that's where it all starts, doesn't it? You know, it's not just a question of if you're going to be a leader out there you need to. It's all about, first of all, answering to yourself, isn't it it?
Speaker 2:is. It is, and you know, everything that's driven by leaders has to first be practiced by a leader, for for, you know, the rest of the organization to really embrace it. If you're just talking the talk, nobody cares right. And so that notion of personal accountability is really the understanding of accountability, not as consequences but as ownership, and it's very. It's based on the notion of free will, choice that we always, always, always have choice. And so if you, if you think about it, you know, if I, if I hired on with you and you had stuff for me to do, you know, do I have choice in that? Of course I do. I can do it or not do it. And so if I choose not to do it, what am I choosing? I'm probably choosing to work somewhere else.
Speaker 2:It doesn't make me a bad person, it makes me a bad fit. But there's a big difference you know we talk about in the book big difference between when we come at life as a choose to versus a have to, because when life is a have to, it's very burdensome. You know, at best I kind of meet minimum standard when I recognize that all life is choice, my energy shifts, and so you know, at the individual level. Really understanding accountability as choice, as ownership, is a game changer in so many ways, because there's this tendency for all of us to look outside of ourselves. We're waiting for someone or something to change, and when we do that, we're giving away our power, whether it's waiting for over here in the States, waiting for inflation to come down, waiting for the politicians to stop arguing like that's ever going to happen, or or whatever. It is right, that, but. But none of that we control, and so when we start to look at what we have control over and we take ownership of the choices we're making and we show up differently.
Speaker 1:when you stand differently, it affects everything around you yeah, I think it's important for the, for the listeners who might be saying but sh1t happens in the world and I can't be accountable for everything that happens to me. You can be accountable for her or you can take ownership of how you respond, isn't that right?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah. And here's the other thing. We're not saying there aren't real victims in life. There are, but there's this victim mindset that too many people have around. Oh why me? It never works for me, or people are trying, you know, things just never work out for me, or I look to blame others. Right, that's a victim mentality. And so the accountable mindset acknowledges the reality of what's happening around, but it also rests on the power that I have choice within that. Now, I might not like the choices I have. Right here, april 15th, you can pay your taxes or go to prison. I don't like either one of them, but you do have choice. And that's the empowering part of accountability is that, in any situation I'm in, I have choice and recognizing that choice and coming from that place of choice and owning those choices, as opposed to looking at the victim mindset. The world happens to me, things happen to me, circumstances happen to me and I have no control over it.
Speaker 1:And you've had loads of conversations with people, partly when you were developing this concept, but also you've already taken it into the marketplace and into companies and organizations, and what do you think is creating this victim-type mindset in society today? Today, have you discovered a kind of pattern or something that you say you know there's too much of this or too much of that that seems to be contributing to this, Because it's rampant, it's everywhere you know.
Speaker 2:It is rampant, but I think it's been around since the beginning of time. When God asked Adam why he ate the fruit, he blamed Eve, right. So I mean it's been around quite a while. In fact, he blamed God it's the woman you gave me, god and so it's not anything new. I just think that, you know, nowadays it does seem like it's growing in popularity just because one is, people have never been taught, and the more you experience that, you know if people are blaming you, the natural thing, the easy thing, is to shift the blame. And so that's the game, right Shift the blame. And you see that all over the media, with the politicians. You see it on social media, Um, and, and so that's. I think that's what's learned, right, we, we, we live what we learn. And so when you grow up with that and you, you know that if you own up to something as a kid, punishments come and you learn pretty quickly to well, yeah, I didn't, it was Bobby or whatever.
Speaker 2:It was right it was your brother, it was your sister, it was you know, and so I think it's just learned to be honest with you, jerry.
Speaker 1:Enjoying the insights and inspiration. Make sure to catch every episode by subscribing to Leading People on your favorite podcast platform and please take a moment to rate us. Your feedback makes all the difference. Remember to follow us on our social media channels and join our LinkedIn group for more content and connection with like-minded professionals. Stay connected, stay informed and let's grow together because you, you, you, quite interestingly, you take four areas of life and you, you, work through these four areas, which is health, career, finances and relationships, and you're, you're actually quite um open about some of your own experiences, even in this regard. And that can you make this now, this idea of accountability, personal accountability and holding ourselves accountable, can you give the listeners a few examples of things that they could relate to in their daily life around, maybe these four themes? Just examples? They could say oh, that's what he means by holding myself accountable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we took those four themes because I think they're the big themes in life. If you're doing well in those areas, life is pretty good, starting with your health. So many people just have not taken ownership of their health. You look at the number of people on medications and statins and things like that that to a large degree are controllable by lifestyle. But instead of owning it and changing their lifestyle, they pop the pill. And that's the modern day solution, right, just take the pill. But there's any time you're taking any kind of medication there's side effects to that, adverse side effects, and so they start to compound.
Speaker 2:And so, you know, looking at your health, judy and I are both cancer survivors and that causes you to really take a good hard look at what you're putting in your body, how you're exercising. You know, are you getting enough sleep? And it's really easy to not do that, to just kind of go along. But when you take ownership of it, you realize that your health you know it's that old saying, it's just easy to take that for granted right until you don't have it. And so taking ownership of that means really looking at you know, what do I need in terms of health to perform, to live the life I want to live. And so I started late. I had my first daughter at 40. For me to see my grandkids and for them to know me one, I need God's blessing. But I've got to do everything I can too. I can't, you know. So you know, I've got a workout regimen. We eat pretty. We're not fanatical with it, but we eat healthy and we mind the diet that way. And it's the same thing you know in those other areas as well. Your, and it's the same thing you know in those other areas as well. Your career, you know.
Speaker 2:I just see people that are stuck in jobs or careers that they lament they hate going to work and it's like well, that's a choice, you know you don't have to work there. They'll tell you they feel trapped and, again, that's a choice. You can begin to make different choices and set yourself up to have the kind of career you want. And I'm not saying it's easy, but anything worthwhile in life takes effort and and most people they want, they want the um, a certain life, but they're not willing to do the work. Yeah, and that's when I talk about owning.
Speaker 2:It is not only owning the outcome you're after, but most importantly, owning what you need to do to create that outcome, whether it's in a relationship, whether it's your finances, whether it's your health, whether it's your career. If you want something better, you've got to own the actions to get there, the actions that are causing you to be where you're at currently, as opposed to again looking outside yourself and saying, well, it was the circumstances. Yeah, circumstances play a role, but again, the choices you make in those circumstances make a big difference. It's the example you know someone cuts you off in traffic. One person gets road rage, the other person no big deal. What's different it's how they process it, how they think about it and how they respond to it. So how you think about those areas of your life really have a huge impact on how you show up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I guess this is what you're alluding to when you talk about mindset. You need to start with the mindset to really explore how you're processing the world around you. Are you one of these people who gets upset all the time when somebody doesn't move off on a red light or you, or cuts you off and that, or are you actually so? I, I guess, um, and you're also. What's really nice about the way you you've created the 12-week year was you really took that notion. That strategy is about execution and you know it's okay to have goals, but if you don't do anything, you don't. You know you're not going to see any results. And and what I like about this book is you really take that further. You really take it out there and and challenge people to think about. Are they owning their experience? Are they owning you know the things that they're doing? Are they doing the things they need to do to achieve the things they want, right? Yeah?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and owning doesn't mean blame. It's really important to understand that Owning my situation doesn't mean I'm blaming. A victim mindset looks back right. It looks back at the things that happened and tries to shift blame. An accountability mindset is more focused about the future. Okay, this is what happened and I want to be curious, I want to learn from it. I'm not fixing blame. You know we talk about how the 12-week year is a guilt-free zone and it goes with uncommon accountability. It's not about blaming yourself. It's about looking back and understanding what are the choices I made in the situation that contributed to the outcome. So, if I'm experiencing something I don't care for, you know what choices did I make that contributed to it? Not blaming me that I caused it. I'm bad, I'm evil, whatever. Just what and what might I do differently? See, that's the future aspect of it. We look back to learn so that we can experience more of what we want in the future.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and you mentioned energy early on in our conversation and, of course, if you're running victim mentality and you're carrying around the burdens of the past, your energy is going to be, it's going to affect your energy and it's going to deplete your energy and it's going to make you tired and lethargic, so it's going to affect your ability to actually do the things you want to do anyway. Isn't that right?
Speaker 2:absolutely, absolutely, and you do it long enough and hard enough and it ultimately affects your health in a in an adverse way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, so. So the the nice contrast frame you set up on this is you start talking about holding people capable. So if we get into now the organizational space on this one, um, and you talked about organizations spending millions and millions and millions and then undermining all that with how they they implement consequence-based accountability, and of course, there's so much talk today about things like psychological safety out there, and and I think what you're writing about here is is a factor that needs to be considered if you're talking about these things like psychological safety. But if we get down to this notion now from a leader's perspective, and so there's people out there listening to this who manage people and lead organizations, etc. Right, so, so what now can they start to? To process, because you, I really want to get into this notion of holding somebody capable. So how does?
Speaker 2:that work, yeah, yeah. So if you understand accountability as choices, ownership as a leader, it changes everything, because every leader in every organization we've ever worked in has been taught to hold their people accountable. That's what good leaders do, and and and we challenge that notion because, again, what's at the heart of that? And we're talking about holding someone accountable? What they're really talking about is when someone doesn't do what they're supposed to do, we go in and we create some sort of um, a punishment. It could be a chewing out, it could be a firing somewhere in between, but but that's the notion of hold your team accountable. It's get after them hard when they don't do what they're supposed to do. And the problem with that, jerry, is that if you think about the last time that happened to you, what's the natural tendency when you're on the receiving end of that? Well, it's to make excuses, it's to push back, it's to shift blame, all the things the leader doesn't want. And so when we hold people accountable in that way, you're going to get minimum performance, you're going to get just enough performance to stop the negative consequences. And the second problem with that is not only are you getting minimum performance, but you're going to get collateral damage because it destroys the relationship.
Speaker 2:And I'll give you an example we did a workshop on this with a group and there was a young lady there really, really smart, really talented, and as we were talking through this she said you know what I'm living? That right now she says my boss holds me accountable and I can't stand him. I do everything I can to avoid him. I give him the minimum just so he's. You know, I don't have to spend any time with him. And this is a lady who was super talented, you know, and so he was getting the absolute minimum from her. And she, you know she was and, as you might imagine, she was looking for a different position with, with a different company because of that. But you know she was and, as you might imagine, she was looking for a different position with with a different company because of that. But you know, people go well, that's an extreme case. No, that's an everyday case.
Speaker 2:That happens when you try and hold people accountable that way, it destroys the relationship, um it, it really limits the people's ability, your people's ability to perform. So you're limiting the? Um, the performance of the organization, your people's ability to perform. So you're limiting the performance of the organization, but that's all anybody's been taught. They've been taught this consequence model and they haven't even really been taught it, because there's a lot to a consequence model that people don't even understand, so they're trying to apply it without even being taught and on top of that, it's a flawed model to begin with. You'll never get discretion or effort with negative consequences. You'll never get that extra effort and that's what it takes to really thrive as a leader, as an organization is that extra effort for people, and so we talk about you know, stop coming up next.
Speaker 1:Brian shares groundbreaking strategies for leaders to foster a culture of capability rather than consequence. Learn how transforming your approach to accountability can lead to profound changes in organizational performance and culture.
Speaker 2:Now, when people hear that, they go, wow, that's semantics, it's not. It's subtle, but it's profoundly different in that, instead of confronting with consequences, we confront with choice, because, again, accountability is based on free will, choice. So we confront with the choice. Look, you don't have to work here, right, you don't have to work here. But if you're going to work here, we have standards. So, as a leader, I'm not lowering my standards for you, but it's your job to get there. It's not my burden, it's your burden to perform. My job is to help you to clarify what's expected. But if that's not something you're willing to do, then you're not a good fit. I mean, it's really that simple. But as simple as that is, it creates completely different conversation and different outcomes. And so, again, going to an example from a different workshop, this gentleman there he was a district manager had a number I think 20, 30 managers with him and he talked about this one guy who started out really great and about two years in, his performance started to drop off and he's been trying to hold this guy accountable for probably 18 months now and it's a disaster. And so he said screw it. You know, I'm going to try it, I've got nothing to lose.
Speaker 2:So after doing the workshop, he goes back and he has this conversation with his direct report. He says look, man, you know, part of this is my fault. I've been holding you accountable. I'm done doing that. It's your, it's your job to perform, it's your burden. Here's the expectation, here's the standard to you know. And it was. It was a really good conversation. But in the end he said what do you want to do? And the guy said well, you know, I appreciate the conversation, I want to talk about it, I want to talk to my wife and whatnot.
Speaker 2:So they got back together a few days later and the guy said to him you know what? You're right, I've been making excuses, that's not who I am, that's not how I want to show up, and you won't see that anymore. And he literally turned his performance around that week and within I think six months, became his top performer. Now it might have gone the other way. He might have said I'm out of here, but either way, that's the right choice. And that happened because the district manager confronted him with the choice. He stopped trying to force things on him and said look, you know you have choices here, but but one of the choices isn't to lower the standard, that's a choice of not working here. So you either. You either choose to do the work and embrace the standard and hit it or exceed it or go work somewhere else. And so a much different conversation, much different outcome and different for the culture as well.
Speaker 1:And you're also indirectly helping that person who's gone through that process and who's made that choice. You're actually helping them because what you're actually doing is asking them to hold themselves accountable and, in in a traditional sense, right. They're holding themselves accountable and they learn how to take on more responsibility. They they're going to become better managers themselves because they understand that you know if you promise things and there's a performance expected, you have to deliver, and they're able to hold their own people to standards when they get those jobs Right.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely, and and and I think it goes beyond work it affects their life as well, because when you, when you experience how that works in one area of your life, you apply it in other areas and and so it starts, you start to see it in relationships, you know, with your family, with your spouse, with your partner, and and you stand in those relationships differently and it changes the relationship. You know, most, most divorces are because they're blaming each other and they talk to anyone, right and and okay, so what role did I play in it?
Speaker 1:now again, not about blame, it's about how do we make the future better than the past yeah, yeah, and, and the book is full of anecdotes and stories about, like the district manager and or the young talent lady. There's loads of those for the reader to go and delve into and some of your own personal stories where you, as I say, you're quite open and candid about some of the experiences you've had in your business and other things, and so I think that that makes the book really readable and so human. You know, you kind of can read this and say this guy's pretty open and honest about this. He's not trying to come up with some new bs out there, he's really coming, coming at this from a solid place. Um, appreciate that. Yeah, that was my impression. That was my impression anyway, when I was reading the book.
Speaker 1:Okay, so, um, coming to the end, if you um, so, if you have, we have leaders out there now, or people who aspire to be leaders, or you know anybody out there who's in the workplace and they're not. Let's put it this way. One of the things that this is related to, I think, is engagement in the workplace and the money that is spent on this, and it comes down to basic ability to have conversations about what's expected and having people who are productive and enthusiastic in the work, but if you were to come down now and just say to to some people out there, here's two or three things you should start doing tomorrow or today after you listen to this podcast. What would those couple of things be that you apart from buying the book, of course, but what would those couple of things be, um, that you could say, really you need to start exploring this and you can already start working on this from the get-go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the big one would be just to be mindful about, you know, when you're kind of leaning into the victim mindset, when you're feeling sorry for yourself, when you're looking to shift blame. And it's interesting because no matter how long you practice this concept concept, there's always areas in your life and times when that victim mindset creeps in and so you got to guard against it. So the first step is just being mindful and seeing where you do that and then stopping, pausing for a moment, say is there, is there a better way?
Speaker 1:um, what's the language goes with that, brian, like I mean, just give us, give us an example of something where, if you catch yourself, how would? How would you know you were playing the victim mindset? Just in case people are not clear about that yeah.
Speaker 2:So sometimes it's not in the moment, sometimes it's later, so something happens. I don't like the way it worked out. Maybe it's a conversation with my wife and I'll I'll go back to that, uh uh, later and think through okay, what happened there? What, what you know? What did I do? What could I have done different? That's the big question. What, given what happened, given what I know now, what could I have done different?
Speaker 2:And one of those things, a couple of questions, are you know, what did I pretend not to know in this situation? Where have I done this before? Is this a tendency I have? And the big thing is, if I had to do it again, what would I do different? Because if you do something different, you're going to get a different outcome. Now, it still might not be the one you want, but that's how it works. And so just kind of this, this metacognition on how I behaved in a certain situation, viewing that from afar, without, without blame, but looking at it and saying, okay, that didn't turn out the way I wanted. What happened there? You know, what tendencies do I have in those situations that aren't productive? And and how could I change that? How could I do that different next time, so that when I'm in that situation again, you know the outcome's much more positive so you're able to identify the trigger that sets you off and make a choice, right?
Speaker 1:yeah, absolutely choose, choose some other, just choose something different. Right and find, find out does that work better?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so often, you know, we respond almost habitually. Something happens and boom, it's, you know, and we develop these patterns, and it's just sometimes putting a little space between the experience and your reaction and just digging into what's going on for me, my mindset, so that I can make a different choice in the moment.
Speaker 1:Okay, and if you're a manager out there and somebody is screwed up on the team, what would be a piece of advice or a tip for them to do? Of course, we want them to think about it, but what might be a reframe for them?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So start with the notion of accountability as choice, as ownership, and confront that breakdown from that standpoint. In other words, don't go in to punish the person, because all that's going to do is going to shut them down. And here's the thing with consequence management. Punishment or penalty is great for stopping something, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be replaced with something more positive. So if someone's in a, in a um, uh, a life-threatening situation, you might use that right, but but it doesn't mean that a positive behavior is going to come out of it. So so just let that go right. Think, think about this. The. The reality is, jerry, can you force someone to do something? You really can't? You might create a consequence that's so distasteful that they choose to do it, but that's where all the collateral damage comes in and all that. So really being mindful about confronting them with the choices they have. So when someone's not performing, what you want to do is you want to have them participate in their own self-improvement. It's not something you do to them. Punishment is something you do to them. You want someone to perform better. You want to have them participate in that process.
Speaker 2:How do I do that? I probably lead with questions. So tell me what happened there. Tell me about? Are you clear of the standard? Some of the things we just talked about. What did you do you think led to this outcome? What would you do different next time? Right, those are the conversations that lead to ownership, as opposed to just going in with consequences and saying, hey, you know this didn't work, don't do that again. If you do it again, you know we'll be back here and I'll be, I'll know I'll be punishing you again, kind of thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so lots of great tips and advice, lots more in the book. You can buy it on all the leading bookshops like Amazon et cetera. Can you buy it on the website as well, Brian?
Speaker 2:Yeah, 12weekyearcom, so the number 12weekyearcom is where you can find us. Yeah, 12weekyearcom, so the number 12weekyearcom is where you can find us. We typically run a workshop once a month, and so that's. That's a great thing. If you want to get involved in that, love that, but we have all kinds of resources, as you mentioned, jerry, so 12weekyearcom so I'll put some links in the show notes.
Speaker 1:Uh, how can people get in contact? What's the best way to get in contact with you, brian, if people like what they hear today and they want to check in with you because you got some great products on your website? I bought your software there recently. What goes with the 12-week year? I'm enjoying that, it's really really good. And linkedin linkedin as well. Yep, people write you on linkedin. They can always connect with you. They'll find out what's going on as well there. Yeah, absolutely Okay. Well, brian Moran, thanks once again for sharing your insights, tips and wisdom with me and our listeners today. Thanks for having me, jerry, it was great.
Speaker 3:Next, on leading people If you don't allow mistakes, people don't do anything anymore. So you have to allow mistakes, preferably not twice the same. That would be stupid, but that's one of the reasons I want to have fun in the way I work. It's got to be pleasant, so try to create an environment where everyone is happy in his work.
Speaker 1:Join me and former DHL and Brussels Airlines CEO, rob Kuypers, as he shares riveting stories from his 60-year globetrotting career. We'll dive into the insights of a man who transformed challenges into opportunities, crafting a legacy in the fast-paced worlds of international logistics and aviation. Among other things, we'll explore questions such as how does a competitive spirit shape a leader, how do you get the best performances out of your people, and what career advice does he have for us all? You might be surprised at what he has to say Until next time.